Showing posts with label Brand-Harbeth. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Brand-Harbeth. Show all posts

16 May, 2021

Harbeth Tontragers IsoAcoustics Sound Addicted

Getting the most from your Harbeth Speakers by Jaylat

I was very pleased to see that fellow blogger Doctorjohn recently added Harbeths to his already impressive lineup. I'm a huge fan of my Harbeth P3ESR and 30.1 speakers, which to my ears are ideal for reproducing small ensemble jazz, vocals and classical chamber music.

When I auditioned the Harbeth 30.1s at a dealer I compared them to his top system in his dedicated listening room. This monster setup featured huge Wilson speakers, top line interconnects and cables, and a bank of amps and preamps that totaled well over US$1 million. I much preferred the richness of the Harbeths and Luxmans at a bare fraction (less than two percent!) of the price. [Not to mention the Wilsons look hideous, like a recycling bin or one of those robot cleaning machines you see at grocery stores.]

So how to get the best sound out of your Harbeths?

Tontrager Stands
These are really beautifully crafted stands, handmade in Germany from local woods. As they are very expensive, I'd like to report that they make little difference, but the fact is their effect on the Harbeths are transformative. They really make a huge, huge difference.

Did I mention Tontragers are really expensive? Their P3ESR stands cost almost as much as the speakers themselves. I got a set for the 30.1 monitors, which previously had been sitting on an older pair of speakers.

[If you read the official comments from Harbeth's own User Group forum (which I really do not recommend), they will tell you that Harbeths do not need any fancy stands and will work just as well sitting on any old Ikea stool or block of wood. Oddly, they also cite the super-expensive Tontragers as the only third party stands they officially recommend.]

Once the Tontragers were set up, the difference was so striking that my wife (who can take a rather jaundiced view of this audio hobby) came out of her study some 30 feet away, asking if I had bought a new set of speakers? The sound was really that different. Soundstage, details, bass all saw a huge improvement.

As I understand it, the Tontrager stands allow the speakers to "float" on the four points of contact, which turns the entire cabinet into a musical instrument. Think of playing a cello while holding it tightly, which might dampen the sound, versus a loose grip that lets it vibrate. The Tontragers suspend the speakers in the air, allowing them to really sing.

Another big upgrade for the Harbeth 30.1 system came from merely carting the whole setup from the family room (tile floor, big bank of windows) to the living room, which is fully carpeted with drapes over the windows. The sound has taken on a whole other dimension, which underscores the value of room treatment. And it didn't cost a penny!

IsoAcoustics Aperta Series Isolation Speaker Stands
Luckily there are much cheaper alternatives to Tontragers, especially for the P3ESRs. In my case the Tontrager stands would not work in my home office anyway as they would place the tweeters at below ear level, so I opted for IsoAcoustics Stands, which are really excellent. These are designed to sit on a table top, in my case an antique Chinese altar table.

My office has two different listening areas, one at the computer and one for reading, and the small, light IsoAcoustics make it easy to move the speakers around to suit one or the other location. Do they sound as good as the Tontragers? Not quite, but they're pretty good and come in at a bare fraction of the price. They also allow unlimited vertical adjustments which make them very versatile.

If you really want to save money, the Sound Addicted Studio Monitor Isolation Pads also do a very decent job for the P3ESRs and cost less than $20. They are used in many professional recording studios.

Editor's Postscript:

1. I was pleasantly surprised when I checked in and found this very specific but lovely little article. I can see Jaylat, an experienced writer, had a little trouble with the template, which we all struggle with. Features are minimal and the engine seems to have a mind of its own and frequently over-rides our choices. AI at its worst. Next I shall write a small article as to how to overcome some of the idiosyncrasies.

2. Although I probably come across as one who eschews all tweaks and gadgets, that is not at all the correct picture. Truth is, all tweaks make a difference but most do more harm than good, even if the average audiophile (and certainly most reviewers) focuses more on the latter. Truth too, that I think less is more, more often than not. It takes a life time to learn the meaning of the words "judiciously applied". Nowhere is this more obvious than surface contact - stands and racks. As a longtime student of bookshelf loudspeakers, including many rather bulky UK ones, I have come across a vast array of stands and have shaped my personal beliefs, which should be an article unto itself. Nonetheless, I think:

 a) if possible, choose an open-frame stand, which the Tontrager is. The idea, as Jay alluded to, is to minimize the contact surface between the speaker and the stand;

b) avoid putting spikes and cones and what have you between the speaker and the top plate; this is very popular in HK and the Chinese world but I can say I have never heard these "tweaks" enhance the musical presentation; the Tontrager can be viewed to belong in this camp, but the significant difference is the outriggers are integral parts of the whole structure;

c) metal stands with a full top plate can still sound good but one must listen for oneself. Personally I think heavy metal stands, especially 4-pillared ones, run the greatest risk of sounding bad. HK has the largest population of LS3/5A die-hard's (many also own Harbeth) anywhere and the "common" wisdom is that Foundation 4-pillar works the best. Well, I do think reasonably well of Foundation stands but I think my single pillar 21" works just as well as the commonly seen 24" 4-pillared ones. AND, avoid at all cost those HK and China Foundation Clones - they sound dead, the more so when loaded with sand; Sonus faber stands (of the Franco Serblin era) use a combination of metal and wood (maybe MDF) and they sound good (but avoid that marble based one for the Guarnieri; in fact, if I may dare to say so, avoid the Guarnieri as the various Amators are better);

d) Wood Stands (or hybrid) can sound good, but it is not a given. I have not heard the Tontrager, but the design seems sensible to me. I have heard some others sound reasonable (Diapason is one example) but I am certain in my one belief - real wood is usually better than MDF (the latter over-damps). The best example is HK brand Sound Organisation - I'd avoid ALL of their stands and racks, which kill the music. AS Jay mentioned, breathing is important, and MDF usually suffocates;

e) metal spikes should be avoided as much as possible. Yes, they image better, but usually exact an unacceptable cost, lost of flesh, heft and bass impact which, the more you know about audio, the more you'd guard against their detriment (even in chamber music);

f) in the same vein, and it's interesting that Jay mentioned that difference in his 2 rooms. The floor material is a deciding factor. Both of my HK abodes have hard tile floors. My own impression favors doing away with all spikes on the stands, but it is not an absolute, as my Ruark Crusader III seems to like the spikes.

The ultimate advice is: Try everything! EVEN if it is supposedly counter-intuitive. We think we know Science, but the fact is, there are more that we don't know about than do. It doesn't hurt and, as Jay mentioned, it doesn't cost anything. We should always do cost-less tweaks, whereas MOST of those expensive "solutions" are for the birds.

3. One thing I have to say I really appreciate Jaylat's setup. He integrates his setup into the home, not vice versa. He obviously is my kind of audiophile, not fixed in a seat, enjoys the music and is mindful of aesthetics. I am sure he is comfortable, something I wish for you all!

29 October, 2020

Harbeth P3ESR SE



Brief Review: Harbeth P3ESR SE

This article surprises even myself. As a long-time student of LS3/5A and its derivatives, be it Harbeth or Spendor, seldom have I been distracted, as almost all newfangled attempts to "update" the BBC legend failed to match the accomplishments of the predecessors. BUT, this time it is different.

Many years ago, I have heard the original P3 (Stereophile), and maybe its immediate successor P3ES, several times. While reasonably good sounding, to me the LS3/5A is still better. I have also heard the Spendor SA1 and the earlier generations of S3/5, which bothered me by their leanness in the bass. So all of these were off my radar until recently, when one of Andy's friends was selling among our circle this pair of P3-ESR SE. The SE differs only in special OFC wiring; it is likely that it is not that different from the regular version. The price was irresistible, so I took a chance.

The P3ESR (and SE) have received so many accolades that I need not provide extensive background and links. One may want to start with Stereophile, which has detailed reference back to the older models. For a dissent, read darko.

Rather than a detailed review, I see this article as a testamentary. The many reviews were largely by reviewers that I am indifferent to, but in this case their descriptions and conclusions are accurate: this is a pair of excellent small speakers. As I am intimately familiar with the LS3/5A, and as in my streaming system I had just come off months of listening to LS3/5A, I shall make a few comments regarding the differences.

vs LS3/5A With a slightly larger footprint (deeper by about 1 cm), the P3ESR (SE) is more composed than the LS3/5A. It can play a little louder without straining. Contrary to many of the reviewers. I streamed quite a bit of classical music, some large scaled (like Bruckner). Not very loudly of course, but loud enough, and the Harbeth acquitted itself pretty well, with good composure, a deep soundstage (even deeper than the LS3/5A I think, and that is quite a feat) and hall sound. This is partly attributable to the more refined and airier treble (the LS3/5A has a tendency to become a little grainy when pushed). The Harbeth also resolves more low-level details. The playing of the backing musicians on the CDs shown in the pic, though still woven into the whole fabric, are more audible and that gives pleasure. Unlike some reviewers. I regard the LS3/5A as a very neutral transducer, and here I don't feel the Harbeth is any more neutral. In fact, its somewhat smooth and warm nature is arguably more colored. Although bass is better than LS3/5A in timing and texture, the latter has more fullness and sometimes impact due to the midbass hump (which I regard as a good thing).

Now we come to what I regard as a crucial difference: the LS3/5A, no matter how one partners it, is a little slow in transient speed, but the Harbeth is not. In Hong Kong, I spent a lot of time trying various small loudspeakers for my Kondo Ongaku. The LS3/5A was the top choice for a long time (here). What I didn't mention was that sometimes I had wished for a little faster transient. Later, I switched to solid state with my 47 Labs 4737 (also called Lens Alnico or Lens II) because of its fast and exciting sound (here and here). I mentioned these to put in perspective the darko review I cited earlier. Now, I very much admire the way Darko writes, very articulate and clever, though much of what he reviews are peripheral to me. Some of his reviews are quite brief but the one on the Harbeth is longer. I am not sure of the quality of his ancillary equipment, but what I find truly unsatisfactory in this case is his comparing apples and oranges. If this were an amplifier review, then comparing its performance with different types of speakers would make sense, but it is not that meaningful to compare one speaker with another of a very different nature. Though mine is alnico, his 47 Labs Lens is similar to mine and I know it well. I can very much understand what he is talking about. Everyone has his own preference but I'd like to stress 2 points: 1) the PSESR is definitely not slow in transient; 2) I am not sure how Darko listens to the Lens, but for me, for the material I listen to, it needs a subwoofer whereas the Harbeth doesn't necessarily need to. However, although I didn't try, I am sure it would also benefit from one (as does the LS3/5A).

It would be more meaningful to compare the Harbeth with other similarly sized UK loudspeakers with (or without) BBC "heritage". I think the P3ESR is substantially improved from its previous iterations. I prefer the P3ESR to the leaner and more neutral Spendor's mentioned at the top. I shall also include Proac here. Although not BBC derived, many old Proac models are legendary, and in my opinion better than their current offerings. The old Tablettes lacked bass and can be dismissed (though 2-way, due to their small but fast woofer and narrow baffle, they actually sound not unlike the 47 Labs Lens; similarly they are not tube-friendly). My favorite is the original Response 1, one of the best small loudspeakers I have ever heard (takes more power to drive) and, yes, better than the P3ESR, though it is a different animal with only audio in mind and no allegiance to anything BBC.

That leaves the LS3/5A. Is the P3ESR just a worthy successor or has it surpassed the BBC legend? I personally think the comparison is meaningless. The Harbeth can more than stand on its own as a good design. The "heritage" is likely both a blessing as well as a burden. Due to material difference, no "update" will sound like the original. As a matter of fact, I think the Harbeth sounds less like the LS3/5A than the many clones of LS3/5A now available (UK or Chinese) but also have less of their flaws. The important thing is, like the LS3/5A, the Harbeth is reasonably neutral, musical and engaging. As a classical orchestral listener, I shall favor the Harbeth, but I'd swap in my LS3/5A from time to time to enjoy some smoky blues or ballads.

Matching The Harbeth is really easy to drive. I mostly use it with the Akitika GT-102, but it is friendly to low powered tube amps. It delivered reasonably good performances with the AES SE-1 300B amp (8 wpc) and the Almarro A205A EL84 SE amp (maybe 5 wpc). But best was the Almarro A318 (around 20 wpc; article to come). It is for sure easier to drive than the LS3/5A.

A benign impedance, an always musical sound - what's not to like?

27 July, 2015

DSD from Vinyl Rip, Harbeth SHL5

ScreenshotsTalk CAS/Talk Vinyl: Ripping Vinyl to Digital
Home Visit: Harbeth Super HL5, E.A.R. 868, Parasound Zphono USB
Overview: Harbeth

This article comes from two visits to my friend 唐吉訶德 Tony's place. A lot has changed between the two visits: Tony has acquired an EAR 868 preamp, close cousin of my 912. I had also brought back from NYC my Parasound Zphono USB expressly for him to play. Also, Tony has experimented extensively with various ripping methods and both DSD and PCM formats.

Digitizing Vinyl
  • This is something I am curious about, but not something that I'd do myself on a large scale. I just have too many LPs (numbering more than 10k) - transfer is impossible, especially if you consider the cleanliness required. But I can see the urge to occasionally transfer a favorite LP to digital file, especially if it is not available on CD. Back twenty years ago, a Taiwanese friend moved to work in China and could not bring his vinyls with him, so he digitized his collection, so vinyl ripping is not at all something new to me.
  • Some people (including reputable people like AMR/iFi's Thorsten Loesch) say if done well the digital file should sound very close to analog playback. Also, I have noted reviews have favorable comments on Devialet's A to D phono section.
Overview: Harbeth
Recently, in the HK forum review33, someone asked about Spendor SP100 vs Harbeth M40. My view expressed can serve as a brief overview of my experience with Harbeth. First, in Chinese:

"...唐吉訶德的問題是 SP100 vs M40。 在我看來,不容易討論。表面看來兩者都是承傳 BBC 的設計,但我相信用起來絕對不一樣。

先說 Spendor, 大家都知道我是它經典產品的粉絲,更用過不少, 不妨看看我的總結

如果不是玩了號角,我是永遠不會賣 SP100 的。 它容易推, 更受膽。連 Unison Research Smart 845 單端都有超凡效果。我賣了給好朋友,他用普通的 KT88 膽機也推得不錯

另外一個朋友,也受了我們的影響,買了新款一點的 SP100R, 用 Verdier 膽機也推得很好

這些都是實例,所以 SP100 受膽是不容置疑的。但我也相信,用適當的石機(如以前的英國合併)也會很好。還有,留意, SP100R 還是大致保留了前身的味道。 我會猜 R2 也一樣。

現在的 Spendor 變了很多,新產品我沒太大興趣。但他們既保留了 SP100, 不會在它身上做太多變動的。這種樣子的東西只有少數的知音(尤其在臺灣和日本)。

再説 Harbeth, 我的經驗少許多,但也不太少。M40 我以前在朋友 Wher 哥舊家聼過,用石后級,效果非常不錯。40.1 就沒聼過。

最近在 ”Conrad Johnson Classic 60 Power Amp“ 這 thread 裏,我說過我對膽機推 Harbeth 的保留:

”...用在 Harbeth 身上,我有點保留。多年前我玩過第一代 Compact 7 及 HL5。用膽機推,高中漂亮,但低音始終不好。M30 我不敢說,你可去 Harbeth 同好會 問問。

講到英國喇叭,很多人都以爲像 LS3/5 一樣受膽, 其實不然。 除了 Harbeth 外,我玩過的Celestion SL6, Spendor SP1/2, 乃至 Proac Tablette 2,都不容易用膽玩得好。

在我看來,Harbeth 的低音比較難搞。連他們的 LS3/5A 低音都和其它 LS3/5A 不一樣,多些。

爲了了解 40.1 我在網上看了很多資料,有些非常值得細讀, 尤其是 Stereophile

這幾篇文章一流,Harbeth 同好必讀。 除了 Art Dudley 的 review 外,還有編輯 John Atkinson 和 Alan Shaw 來回辯駁,都圍繞著低音的問題。中國人的音響雜誌什麽時候才可以出一些這樣的文章和對話!


6moons 的波蘭人也值得細讀,不像 Art Dudley, 他用的是石機.

玩 Harbeth, 我自己可能會選擇膽前石後。

M40.1 太貴了,我會偏向 SP100R2...".


To translate, basically, based on my experience with the old Compact 7 and HL5, my own general advice on Harbeth to others is (1) Harbeth loudspeakers have very good treble and midrange, but (2) do not think of them as tube-friendly BBC-derived speakers; (3) bass control is the difficult part, so consider solid state amp rather than tube amp. If you carefully read this Stereophile link, you shall see much debate between the reviewers and Harbeth's Alan Shaw on the bass response, a fascinating read.

Harbeth Super HL5
Many years ago, I owned a pair of Compact 7, brother of the original HL-5. Like the Spendor SP1/2 and Celestion SL-6SI that I had, the treble and midrange were excellent with various tube amps, but not the bass, which would sound loose. I never owned the 2-way HL-5 but heard it many times; it too had bass that was hard to control. I am a tube man, but these experiences led me to conclude Harbeth's match better with solid state. The HL-5 evolved into an ES version. Then, a supertweeter was added and it became the Super HL5. The Super HL5 was generally well reviewed (see TAS; 6moons; StereoTimes) and sold well. The latest version is termed the Super HL5Plus.


Parasound Zphono USB (official info)
Parasound's ultra-compact and budget Z series products are popular with consumers and professionals alike. The Zphono USB is basically a Zphono with addition of an A to D Convertor. It has been well reviewed. The best read is enjoythemusic, which compares the analog playback with digitized copies. For some reason, Parasound has discontinued it, though at the time of writing it is still available.

While I was in NYC, I bought one at discounted price. I tried it briefly with my Denon DL-103 and was surprised by its solid performance as a phonoamp. I never got around to digitizing, so I took it back for Tony to play.

EAR 868 Preamp
Basically, this is said to be similar to my 912 (see my Overview EAR). It has been well reviewed by Positive feedback and soundstage. Tony bought a new one and had to run it in for a long time (small phono signals, large number of transformers). I also lent him my 912 to compare.

There are significant differences between the 868 and 912. The 868 uses 2 instead of 3 tubes in the phono section, and it lacks the 3-position attenuation feature. And of course, no meters.

Home Visit II
Like me now, my friend Tony lives in a small flat. Although the effective listening area is not much more than 100 sq ft, that doesn't dampen his enthusiasm. Tony is an experienced audiophile who has played with a large number of gears. Perhaps due to space limitation, in recent years he has delved fully into CAS. Now, he has embarked on digitizing vinyls, which was the real raison d'etre for my two visits. His current equipment:

Vinyl Setup: VPI/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon Jubilee
Phonoamp: Parasound Zphono USB or EAR 868 built-in phono
ADC for vinyl ripping: Parasound Zphono USB or Terratec
CAS Server: Macbook Pro/Audirvana

DAC (PCM): Weiss DAC2
DAC (PCM): Meridian Explorer
Preamp; EAR 868
Amp: Marantz 8B
Speakers: Harbeth SHL-5

Click pics to enlarge. R, setup; L, Korg


Home Visit I
The visit was a few months ago. Equipment was rather different:

Vinyl Setup: VPI/Kuzma 4Point/Ortofon Rohmann
Phonoamp: EAR 834P or Hovland built-in phono
ADC for vinyl ripping: Korg MR-2000S (DSD files)
CAS Server: Macbook Pro/Audirvana
Digital Interface (DDC): Weiss INT204
DAC (PCM): Weiss DAC2
Preamp; Hovland HP-100
Amp: ARC D-115MkII
Speakers: Harbeth SHL-5

Detour: ARC D-115 The reason for the detour is my personal interest in ARC, and the D115 (see here). This unit actually used to be mine, and it was my second one! Back in the late 90's I used to own one, and it was really powerful, capable to drive almost anything. My first sample used Sovtek tubes and the sound was a trifle bland compared to other tube amps, more modern if you like. This second sample though was fitted with the original Philips 6550 (themselves worth quite a bit now) and it sounded better. When I sold it to Tony, I was shocked how good it sounded driving the JBL 4312's! Massive, room-filling sound. I almost wanted to renege on the deal! A bargain!

Comments
  • Vinyl Setup Tony's vinyl setup is fairly high-end. Although I am generally not a fan of VPI turntables (especially older ones, imho often lacking in rhythmic verve), as a Kuzma (Stabi/Stogi) and Ortofon (MC3000/5000/Kontrapunkt C) user, I have reasonable confidence in the neutrality of his source. Ditto the excellent amplification used on both visits.
  • General Sound/Harbeth Super HL5 For such a small space, sound was properly scaled, decent enough. Particularly gratifying was the good bass control of the Harbeth. Based on my previous experience with the Compact 7 and HL-5, I know that is not easy to achieve, so kudos to the system. Naturally, the Harbeth sounded more run in during the second visit.
  • Vinyl Rips/Visit I On this occasion, Audirvana was used to rip to DSD. Weiss INT204 converts the DSD on-the-fly to PCM192. The Korg can play DSD files but was not heard on this visit (and has since broken down). During this visit Tony's vinyl setup was in overhaul and I heard only stored files. My recollection is they sounded similar to, but not as good as Visit II.
  • Vinyl Rips/Visit II On this occasion PCM was used. I stayed for a long time and compared files derived from various ripping methods with direct analog playback. In general, the files sound very close to direct analog playback and accurately reflect the characters of different equipment.
  • Parasound Zphono phono section vs EAR 868 Tonally, the two are very similar, indeed almost dead-ringers. However, the EAR has better dynamics. This is in accord with my previous impressions in NYC (not as dynamic as my reference gears, as expected).
  • Parasound Zphono USB in action Compared with Tony's regular ADC (Terratec), files ripped by the Parasound is just a little less detailed. However, it seems warmer and flows more naturally. Note here that the Parasound is only 16/44.1, not the 24/96 and 24/192 files made by Tony's regular ADC. Tony also likes its volume control for recording.
  • EAR 868 vs 912 This is based on Tony's experience. Tony says the 912 is a bit better in every way. Also, he said the meters of the 912 are supremely useful when transcribing vinyls. Tony compulsively archives and crosschecks his rips, and so was able to play me the same cuts ripped previously using the 912 - they sounded very close to those ripped using the 868.
  • 24/96 vs 24/192 Tony says often he prefers 96 to 192. Again, this is in accord with my experiences.
  • Meridian Explorer Briefly we heard the Explorer in lieu of the Weiss. Though less dynamic, the little Explorer is warmer and rhythmically more suave.
Conclusions
  • Ripped vinyl files can sound very similar to analog playback. This is indeed food for thought. For me, analog source is superior to digital source not because it has more tonal allure, but that it brings more force and drama to the proceedings (especially with pop music). It seems that this force and drama is not (all) lost after proper digitizing. Fascinating.
  • The Parasound Zphono USB is a screaming bargain!