20 April, 2023

Nobsound E6 Part II Douk

Click Pics to enlarge. Top, Andy's JBL Station. From L (top) to R (bottom), Technics SP10 w/ Dynavector DV505; Garrard 401 w/Odyssey RP1; E6 on plinth; Dared 2A3 amp.

Nobsound E6, Part II: Cap Mods, Feedback from NYC
Letter from NYC (23-1): Update on Andy’s System


Update 4/22/23: Empty circuit board photo added. Shows which cap is which. 

Note: Part I is the Main Review. For those who first encounter the E6 here in this page, please read it for main info - this is a follow up, but it’s full of useful info. Part III, on Phase Reversal and more on Microphonics, has also been published. 


The Miracle Continues 
As I mentioned in Part I, the Nobsound E6 is that miraculous product. Here we strive to make it even better!

Capacitor Mods As I mentioned in Part I, given the tiny size of the PCB that is studded with surface mount components, the only mods possible (within the ultra-compact chassis) are the 4 coupling caps. The stock is pretty standard generic MKP2. As you can see from the pics, on the side that has only one, there is no concern. BUT, on the side that has 3 jammed close together real estate is a real problem. Make sure you scale with the tube socket in mind and you shall see how little space there is.

Which Cap is What They 4 grey caps are Input and Output Coupling Caps. Value is unusually high at 1.0 uF (5% tolerance, 250V). After I un-soldered them, I noticed they are numbered C1, C2, C3, C15 on the PCB. This is highly unusual. In the usual circuits, the left and right are named with some symmetry, like 12 for R and 22 for L; 13 for R and 23 for L. Not here! The PCB tracks are sophisticated, double sided, sandwiched and copper traces are not visible except for slightly raised outlines. I could only trace C2 to the volume pot, and so it’s an input cap. I inquired and fortunately got an answer after I did my mod: C2 and C3 are Input Caps; C1 and C15 are Output Caps. Now, that is helpful for planning.

https://m.tb.cn/h.UsNmXVa?tk=bpX3dlUIHxn Capacitor Choice I cannot emphasize enough the importance of this. I don’t mean (preconceived) sonic merits, I mean size!!!! 250V caps are smaller than 400V ones, but they can still be pretty big. There is very little room. I ordered 4 types (dirt cheap), and the most “expensive” ones, so-called “Solen” that I used with success to mod my ETA Preamp (here), were just a little too big, and I finally resorted to the Audiophiler ones. I replaced all 4 with same. For US (Parts Express) and Europe readers, perhaps check out the cheap and good “German” Audyn caps which I used to modify my Dynaco PAS3 (here). The smaller the better! Dispel the thoughts of using PIO Jensen, or Beewax or whatever! Won’t fit! You have been warned.

While we are on boutique caps, most of them cost as much as, or more than this device itself. It’s your choice, but I think dollar caps today sound very good, as per my Dynaco and ETA efforts linked above. And, most of them, French Solen or German Audyn, to name just 2 mentioned here, are for sure made in China. The rest of the deduction you do yourself.
Well, here’s actually a thought. For one of the caps on the crowded menage a trois side, you can solder wires and move the cap to the other side (affix it with blu-tac or glue), which has more space. So, perhaps it’s possible to have somewhat larger caps after all...

Sound The Audiophiler Caps cost RMB 3 (for 4). One can extrapolate how much the stock one's cost. BUT, the effect is mightily impressive! Everything got significantly better. It’s not a question of better high’s or better mid’s or low’s (though it is better in all of these, but nothing predominates). No, it’s a much more organic kind of better everything, including control, integration, dynamics, noise level and, ultimately and very simply, how much one is at ease without noticing this or another deficiency. After the bar is raised, I really think this tube can do no harm whatsoever. Proceed with confidence! A rough estimate, the magnitude of improvement by cap mods is as much as moving from the Chinese tubes to the Russian ones mentioned in Part I.

Ultimate Mod Fantasies Well, one solution is to move the PCB outside its straitjacket of a chassis! Mount the PCB in a larger box, use rubber washers to isolate it and for shock absorption. Use whatever caps (even huge vintage oil caps) you like. And, yes, solder wires to the PCB and use a “better” pot is a possibility. Personally, I look down on expensive resistor ladder pots. Many of us prefer the more natural sound of carbon pots (yes, even Shindo). It’s your move. Why are we talking about this? Well! This little thing is worth it!

E6 fever in New York City
I’m really shocked how the E6 has taken my NYC friends by storm.

Lenco TT with STAX (and SME).

Andy How come I know so many Andy’s? Well, for regular readers, this Andy is not the HK one I mentioned in my recent Guangzhou Show reports. He is my NYC analog guru and leader of the gang there (we have a wechat group). Regular readers need only to search this blog and find my numerous NYC articles (here for one). Well! Andy and I know each other’s taste very, very well (yes, we have small differences, but they are highly consistent and reproducible, and we know what the other will feel). As reported before, he spends his daytime downstairs with his 2 horn systems. As purveyors of DHTs, of course we are all interested in the unusual E6. And so, Andy bought one - and really liked it:
  • He mostly uses Analog. In his Dining Room JBL Station (pics in this article, previously reported in detail here, but it is very different now), he employs three turntables with 4 tonearms: 1) Garrard 401 w/Odyssey RP1; 2) Technics SP10 w/ Dynavector DV505; 3) Lenco Double Decker w/ Stax and SME 3012 Series One. Except for the Stax Cartridge, the TT output goes into Citation I, then via Tape Out connects with E6 which then drives the Dared 2A3 amp. He hasn’t done much comparison, but his gut feeling is the E6 sounds as good as most much of his preamps.
  • The Stax setup deserves a special mention. Andy found out that the E6 almost miraculously can serve as the 10 db Booster amp (the E6 is around 16 db, with a volume knob) for his Stax ESL cartridge (reported in detail here; this cartridge is highly unusual, amplitude device, no RIAA needed; the output goes into a decoder, which must be used, and then into a Booster amp. The original Booster was FET, but Andy said the E6 is simply better!
  • In his Altec Station, he has also briefly tried out the E6 to good effect. With CD, his Sony SCD-777ES benefits from the warmth of the E6.
  • In his main mega system upstairs (reported in detail here), Andy has tried the E6 to good effect as a booster for phono going into the ARC Reference 2 Line Stage. As the noise level is low, he finds it very useful wherever signal boosting is needed. The latest is this: Quote: “...I’m testing one between the equalizer of the DS E1 optical cartridge and ARC Reference II line stage. It’s doing a good job toning down the solid-state characteristics of the IC op-amp equalizer...” Here though Andy finally detected some microphonics, which he said were largely absent downstairs.
  • Andy bought a few more to use in all his systems. And our friends have followed suit! The cohort so far has bought >10 and have depleted Ebay! I hope more reports to follow.
Mark Now, this is yet another insane friend whose big systems I have reported in detail before. Well, he bought one and then 3 more! See right screenshot for his comments.

There are more to come later from the other fellows...

2J27 Supply Woes For us, and for the foreseeable future, buying a few tubes is not a problem. But for a popular manufacturer, which likely buys 10K tubes at a time, it’s a big problem. There’s no great stash in China, nor Russia. So, in my estimation in a few months E6 shall not be available. If you are interested, now is the time to act.

Summary
  • A great product Our NYC friends have all experienced very high-end before and together we are still stunned by the performance of this little thing!
  • Serving as Booster Amp (or buffer) To sum Andy's experience, the E6 is worth trying out wherever you want a little buffering warm sound, or extra gain of up to 10+ db. It can serve well in many circumstances, particularly for analog fans, all thanks to the excellent engineering and the LOW NOISE (when the tube is good). My thinking: actually, all these fellows own several preamps and others could possibly fill the same shoes (but many of their vintage ones are noisier). But the difference with the E6 is that it's tiny and one is much more inclined to use it rather than pile up another big box into the system. A connected E6 looks smaller than the junction boxes on some interconnects (think MIT, Oracle etc).
  • Microphonics is an issue that still looms on the horizon. So far, the NYC crowd did not have much microphonics, and they haven’t even switched to the Russian tube yet. For me here, as detailed in Part I. I use Russian tubes and don’t have the problem anymore. But we're on the watch for it.
  • This is the kind of product Cheaptubeaudio exists for, and we are proud of really exploring it in depth. We have our author Shawn P to thank for it. It was after talking to him that I decided to try it out (chronicled in Part I, link on top of page). Incidentally, Shawn P has also gotten one and in due time we shall have his experience too!
Andy's Decca Cartridge through Citation I and the E6 (see setup above)!

30 comments:

  1. Hello, have you tried the E6 as a phono stage?

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    1. Sorry, it has no RIAA equalization and cannot be used as a standalone phonostage.

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  2. AnonymousMay 09, 2023

    i decided to buy it. I will make the modifications you recommended, new caps and Russian tubes. I will use a new box and a better pot. Thank you

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    1. When done, please report back! Thx.

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  3. Am going to get one: will have to ask the Ukranians in the local café about spare tubes!
    What of the 'RP1 - the designer lent me the pre-production prototype - very Mission 774 in concept!!!

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    1. What is the 'RP1?

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    2. Odyssey RP1 - The tonearm on the Garrard 401 (above)...

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  4. Hello, You mentioned that the original capacitor values are unusually high, so what values did You choose ?...and I also experienced that the valves " howled " which was a resonance within the tube and another even exhibited " crackling " caused by static inside the tube, which was remedied by gently Tapping the tubes with a pencil ,..this has been a month ago and sofar No more problems,and the sound has Improved Considerably since,..I have several of these and one amp. was ruined due to using a psu with wrong polarity, so I`m thinking the transistor at the psu input was fried, and these components are really small, I have no clue as how to fix this, advice is welcome.

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    1. I used the original value. Yes, the microphonics tend to settle down after a while I was told. Reversing PS polarity is deadly and will fry output devives. No way to repair given the tiny SM component jammed board.

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  5. I am looking to see if anyone has posted the E6 schematic - anywhere.

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    1. No. But search Chinese net using baidu.com and u may find some circuits.

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  6. I bought an E6 because of all the info you posted. Thanks! I had no idea it would make my little system sound so much better. I bought a couple sets of Russian tubes and installed with the the aluminum can intact. Since I had to pull the PCB from the enclosure to fit the tubes I also upgraded the output caps with Audyn Plus caps 1.0u. I'll install something different on the input side once this setup burns in. This is between a D1se2 and Schiit Valhalla 2.

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    1. Wonderful to hear positive feedback! Thx!

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    2. Another update. I added small 400V+ film caps across all the electorlytics C4, C6, C16, C18 in parallel. It sounds different, blacker background and more dynamic, texture of instruments are more defined. Input caps are still stock. This little amp is fun to mod. Thanks again for all your work. I wouldn't have purchased this unit if it weren't for your posts. Happy Holiday's I'll update once if I change the input caps.

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    3. Fascinating, maybe my NYC gang will try this! Thx for the input!

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    4. I used whatever I had on hand; small 3.3uf epco films, paralleled C16 and C18; Superior Z 0.1uf on c14 (not C4 in my previous post); and a small vishay 0.1uf on C6. No oscillations or ringing with the extra capacitance so far. Surprisingly, Skunkie Designs Electornics on Youtube just released a video titled "Power Supply Cap Changes Amplifier Sound?!" discussing experiences with changing caps in the power supply of direct heated tubes. Even though this is a switching supply it's possible changing the electrolytics to Panasonic FCs or to full film like EZP-E coffins may yield sonic changes results due to low ESR(I may try this). For reference, HK FL8550 SACD player/HOLO Audio Titanis 800mah USB from PC into SMSL D1SE2 DAC (no filtering in the settings). My E6 is powered with a cheap linear/regulated PSU. E6 pot is set about 3/4 of its turn radius, into a valhalla2(telefunkens in the buffer) headphones HD660S2. BTW, since you're powering your E6 with an SMPS have you ever tried something like AtomicBobs SMPS noise nuke?

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    5. No! I'm just a rudimentary mod guy, not at ll like u fellows. All power to you.

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    6. You should really try the noise nuke! It may yield nice results (dynamics, darker background, etc.) and super easy to make. It's an inline DC low pass filter, a beefy inductor followed by about 13000uF (or more) of capacitance. I use them right at the input (no farther than 6") of all my DC powered audio devices. You can use a Hammond 157E (up to 4A) or 155B (2A) inductor followed by quality, low ESR, caps in parallel. Since you're using a barrel size adapter between the wamptek and E6, you can use the "noise nuke" as the barrel aize adapter and filter all at the same time.

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    7. My mistake it's not a low pass filter. It's a hghpass filter since the inductor goes to ground.

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  7. I managed to put two of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/285029583061 in as the output capacitors. The capacitors are advertised as PIO. I did put heat shrinks on the capacitor body and leads to avoid touching the case since space is tight. These two capacitors seem to give more tube sound and less harsh high end. My "sound memory" is not good...all I know now is that I like these much better then the Audiophiler ones. I will try to post some pictures later.

    I had to remove the 2 input capacitors assuming the source doesn't have DC. If I am worried, I can put two quality PIO capacitors inline on the RCA cable.

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    1. Great! Russian PIO caps are great! Very musical!

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    2. I have gotten great results from installing four Russian PIO 1 microfarad caps in this little DH preamp, after rolling through several different sets of various caps for comparison purposes. Subjectively to my ear they are the best so far--they provide a remarkably "smoother" output with superior clarity & definition of individual instrument timbres in classical orchestral music. They seem to clean up a lot of the slight "muddiness" previously there when sonic material got thick & complex, particularly in loud passages of orchestral classical music. The particular Russian [green in color] PIO caps I used are far too big to fit the case, so now I'm resigned to this cap install without the case on the preamp. The soundstage is more broad, airy, & spacious with these caps as well. The improvement is substantial enough that I will proceed permanently using the preamp without the case, mounting it in a fabricated plastic "project box" to protect the caps which are physically hanging out the sides of the circuit board footprint. I have secured the caps by cementing tiny diameter carbon fiber rods to the caps from the fabricated case.

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    3. Marvelous! Thx for reporting!

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  8. I completed my DH preamp upgrades--in addition to re-capping-- by installing a pair of Russian DH tubes, and they do sound better to my ear than the Chinese tubes which came with the unit. I connected the preamp to an re-capped Aiyima A07 amp with new, way better op amps then came installed stock. The speakers are currently Magnepan LRS+, and the sound is stunningly clear with a tremendous sense of spaciousness and a highly nuanced definition of individual instruments as discrete sound sources contributing to a convincing auditory whole. If you have not had a chance to hear Magnepan electrostatic speakers, you are in for a real treat. Their mid + high frequency definition is not to be believed; and their cost is amazingly low. They produce a blockbuster soundstage with palpable width & depth. They compare favorably to any speaker I have heard in the range of $5,000-7000 USD. Mine are essentially entry level[LRS+], but perform far above their price range. Other than horns in other set-ups, Magnepans are the only speakers I've heard that blessedly do not ultimately sound a bit "boxy"--for obvious reasons; because they are flat panels.

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    1. Marvelous! I'm a little surprised that the A07 can drive Maggies comfortably. Power to you! Incidentally, I am kind of a Maggie fan and occasionally get my 1.7 out for fun. Also stowed away from way back is a pair of MMG (kinda like a slightly smaller LRS). If you search Maggie (top left) this blog has many entries on them!

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    2. Yes--indeed the Magnepans are not terribly efficient in sound volume per watt. [guessing from listening without looking at specs--87db?] My A07 - although not precisely measured for power output by me--"feels" like it could be producing perhaps 35 clean watts a channel. It yields what I would term adequate listening levels. Currently I'm running this stack in a fairly small room, so that helps. I had to change out the Magnepan resistor option for a less bright sound, since with all the tweaks to amplification, I ended up with very penetrating treble requiring this adjustment [per Magnepan built-in options for high frequency sound balance.] With Magnepans, you will never be lacking in mid/high frequency clarity! They are incredibly life-like, particularly with instruments like cymbals, snare drums, overtines from concert grand highest keyboard octave, or piccolo to name a few. Sadly the fellow who invented them recently passed away. RIP.

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  9. I have also jumped on the little E6 (named "CADISI" now in Europe). Hoping to use it to control volume on the simple Pass ACA 8w single ended mosfet power amp. But even with only 12 db of gain in the Pass ACA, plugging in the little E6, I instantly get quite strong hiss from my Fostex Fe206En Horns, audible even from 2-3m. Microphonics are also unbearable, just brushing the device anywhere produces a long sustained ring. Both hiss and ringing are independent of volume setting on the E6 itself.
    The sound however, is rather enticing and complimentary to fullrange drivers. I would really like to make this work and not have to return it. Any ideas why this might be so?
    I can add, that plugging the E6 into my gainclone with volume control, the effect is much reduced at very low gain. But as soon as crank the volume on the power amp, I get similar behaviour as with the Amp Camp Amp.
    Kind regards! Alex

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    1. I can add to this now, that a few other users have reported the same behaviour when using the E6 into either a power amp or an integrated with the volume turned to the max - even a flea power amp of 2w.

      So it doesnt seem to be possible to use the E6 as an actual preamp (to control volume).

      Cheers!

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    2. Sorry for late reply. Well, a lot of us have used it successfully as preamp! Yes, your issues do happen but I think: 1) as I wrote, good isolation is a MUST. A good slab of rubber or some form of air cushion (which a reader DIY'es and used successfully) for a start; 2) regarding the hiss, me and my friends in HK and US don't suffer from this. It could be the tube's fault; 3) regarding microphonics, as I advised, put some rubber bands or O-rings around the tube will help a lot; 4) I highly advise getting some Russian tubes. If you DON'T remove the outer shield it will help in combatting microphonics etc. As the holes are too small to insert the un-peeled tubes you have to forego the casing and to take out the board (very easy). Even then you have to cut off a bit of the guide pin to be able to fully insert the tube. This way it will be quiet. Make sure it's on a non-conducting surface (like a mouse pad or cardboard) so as not to short anything out. As for electricity, voltages are so low it won't be a problem at all.

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    3. Have you sorted out the hiss? I just got mine today and I use a fosi X2 Phono preamp connected to the E6 and then to two fosi audio mono V3 to drive my JBL speakers. I do get the hiss and it's initiated by the E6 and even after turning off the E6 it continues, however the hiss is only audible if I put my ears near the speaker. The same behaviour can be observed on the ringing too, doesn't stop even after the E6 is turned off, the only way to stop is to turn off the Fosi monos. The sound was rather harsh and fatiguing for the first three hours or so, then it mellowed down and the harshness gave away to quite warm and the bass performance seems improved too. I put two shot glasses to cover the tubes and put them on a spare isolation feet i had lying around bought for the turntable ( fluance has only three feet so had one lying around). This has stopped the ringing completely. I have ordered the soviet tubes and plan to do the cap mod with mundrof.

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