B&W 801 Mk II, Belden 1810A

Brief Follow Up: B&W Matrix 801 Mk II
Belden 1810A Loudspeaker Cable

Since our last visit, our indefatigable friend Kevin had (once again) revamped his audio setups - for the sole purpose of allowing his beloved B&W's more room to breathe.

By pushing the horns backward, the 801's could be placed more backwards and further apart, as seen in top pic (compare with old setup in right pic). It thus forms a long isosceles triangle with the listener.

As I wrote in my report on the last visit, I'd not have done it this way. Were it up to me, I'd have moved them further forward, and then pull them apart, to form more of an equilateral triangle with the listener. More near field in this large space would not have been a bad thing - it would largely eliminate room effects for both the B&W's and the horns.

Nonetheless, as it is, the sound was excellent. While I know the sound stage could be even wider and deeper (if placed more forward), the tonal balance was very good and there was plenty of heft in playback, which is as it should be. Note that for this visit the Bass Alignment Module was in place (I didn't get to hear the system without it, which I'd like to next time). Although the pic shows a transistor amp below the the tube amp, it was not in use.

Besides the re-positioning, Kevin elevated the front of the 801's considerably, thus raising the soundstage and image size. To my thinking, that probably accounted for at least half the improvement.

Belden 1810A (official data sheet) I'd take this opportunity to talk about this cable, my go-to for bi-wiring, also used with great results on my pair of 801 in HK (here). This is a 4-conductor loudspeaker cable with solid performance. It is a bargain, but those interested may face the problem of not being able to get a good price for small quantities (a group buy is a good idea).

Sonically, the 1810A cannot be faulted in any department. From my own considerable experience, one of its greatest merits is its ability to match with a diversity of (good) loudspeakers. Before my B&W 801, I have used it on Magnepan SMG, Spendor LS 3/5A, Harbeth LS 5/12A, Sonus faber Signum, Proac Response 1 and 2, to name just a few, all to sterling effect. As a matter of fact, after I acquired the 1810A, I have never used any other cable for bi-wiring. Highly Recommended.

In Kevin's setup, he uses two different cables for bi-wiring (usually not a good idea in my book). On my visit, he was reluctant but obliged me. To my ears the Belden 1810A sounded more coherent, with a larger soundstage and more air, but I know he may think differently.

Kevin is a DIY person, making a large number of cables. He also recently DIY'ed a nice record weight using discarded industrial material. And, thanks for the wonderful lamb stew!

Subjective, Objective, Cables

Pic shows Andy's EMT 930 fitted with EMT TSD-15 Cartridge.

Subjectivism vs Objectivism (via Thorsten Loesch)
Home Visit: Chez Andy

While not this article's focal point of discussion, nothing better illustrates the great divide between Subjectivism and Objectivism than the Turntable, which is inferior to Digital in spec's, yet superior sounding.

The February 2019 issue of TAS was most interesting for Steven Stone's Coverage of RMAF 2018. Not for what he covered (CAS) per se, which is peripheral to me, but for a passage that even when browsing quickly somehow caught my attention:

"...I had a long conversation during the show with Thorsten Loesch of Abbington Musical Research and IFI. He told me a fascinating story about confirmation bias. That’s when you are so sure of something that even strong evidence to the contrary will not persuade you to change your mind. 

Thorsten put together a blind ABX testing where he told participants it was a comparison of two power cables. But when he went behind the curtains, ostensibly to change the power cable, what he actually did was switch the speaker cables on one channel, so the system was playing out of phase. Thorsten had three different types of audiophiles take his test: subjectivists, objectivists, and those who were neither. The subjectivists and neutral listeners heard the effects of the system being thrown out of phase. The objectivists heard no differences. It was a robust test with clearly correlated results.

And how noticeable is having one speaker’s channel out of phase with the other? Ten years ago, at CES I entered a room with an “All Digital System” that had all the DACs and electronics in the loudspeakers. I listened for about ten seconds, then I turned to the gentleman who was giving the presentation and told him, “One of your channels is out of phase with the other.” He told me that was impossible since all the connections were hard-wired. I thanked him and left. A day later he caught me in the hall and explained that indeed one channel had been mis-wired out of phase.

The fact that the objectivists in Thorsten’s test were the ones who were so set in their opinions that it blinded them to the aural facts in front of their ears is a delicious irony. Why? Because those audiophiles who embrace ABX testing with the most fervor are those who believe most strongly in effects of expectation bias, which is why sighted testing is, in their eyes, flawed. Thorsten’s test indicates a strong tendency for objectivists to listen with closed ears whether the test is blind or sighted, which isn’t very objective, is it?..."

Thorsten Loesch I have known (on the net only) him for quite a long time, long before he became an industry figure. I quite like the man. Opinionated, yes, but who isn't? Solidly grounded in engineering, yes, which cannot be said of most of his detractors. But I most admire him for the help he offered many people, and for his fondness for some vintage equipment despite being fully aware of numbers. He is someone who should really know both the subjective and objective sides of audio.

Internet Discussion Of course, his comments immediately seized attention in certain forums. In the long thread here there were debates on what he said, including a little vitriol. Nonetheless, it is an interesting thread:

• I agree with what a commentator said, that the terms "Subjectivism" and "Objectivism" as used in audiophilia bear no resemblance to their more rigorously defined counterparts in Philosophy (or Psychology).

• When it comes to SET amps, Non-Oversampling DAC's (what I like), no reader of Stereophile will have missed the gulf between the Subjective Assessment of the admirers of such gear (Art Dudley, Herb Reichert and Ken Mecallef) and the Objective Measurements (usually terrible in numbers) of John Atkinson. What do I believe when it comes to these things? The subjective side of course.

• One commentator posted an interesting link by an Objectivist, which I found to be good reading despite my Subjectivist bend: "Science and Subjectivism in Audio", by Douglas Self.

As the Subjective/Objective arguments most often pertain to cables, I now give a take on my own experiences by telling you my latest moves.

Two Recent Examples of How I Changed the Sound by Changing a Cable After I installed the Grommes LJ5 in my system to my great satisfaction (just roll down to my last article or click here), something nagged at me. Using the Grommes as Integrated's, I wanted to improve the sound delivered by my System III's Thorens TD-309/Denon DL-A100 (basically a DL-103) - it wasn't quite as good as the Thorens TD-124/SME3012/Denon DL-103 from System I fed into a SUT then directly into the Grommes. Grant you, although the two cartridges are virtually the same, there were differences in setup - the TD-309 goes through a solid state phonoamp (47 Labs Shigaraki) and then through a buffer amp (Schiit Saga); the TD-124, likely a better turntable to begin with, is used with an excellent SUT going into Grommes' tubed phono section. But I wanted to narrow the gap, even achieve near-parity.

What did I do? I just changed the phono cable of the TD-309. Out went the VdH The Second, not a favorite, but a stopgap that worked well when last used with the Wavac MD-811, and in came the Gotham GAC-2, one of my two go-to cables (the other is Gotham DGS-1, which is already in use for connecting the output of the 47 Labs to the Schiit Saga). The sound improved so much that the TD-309 setup no longer feels so different from the TD-124 setup, which is as it should given the similarity of the cartridges.

Another recent example would be the transformational change brought about by the Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pro in Kevin's system (here). So, what a difference a cable makes! This makes me take this opportunity to write the following:

Cables, do they make a difference? The short answer is: Absolutely, and sometimes even profound (as illustrated by the examples above). This prompts me to write soon a "HiFi Basics" article in which I shall cover some of my beliefs on cables. Watch this space.

Home Visit: chez Andy

Andy and I do not need a reason to get together. Generous to a fault, Andy always cooks a simple but tasty meal and serves fine wines. On this occasion, Kevin and I enjoyed the excellent steak (actually from Mark) and wine.

Before Kevin arrived, I listened to two interesting cartridges. First was VAS Steven's revamped Denon DL-103 with ruby stylus! (on the Garrard 401/SME3012) which was used with a small Fidelity Research SUT (much like my beloved FRT3G, seen at the bottom of pic, right of middle). I also heard Andy's newly acquired EMT TSD-15 (current version; used on the EMT 930). The EMT is well known, as it has been widely and favorably reviewed, whereas the ruby Denon is an unusually tweaked oddity, but it is likely you will hear more about both in the future.

Grommes Little Jewel 5 LJ5 6V6 Authenticap

Note the replacement electrolytic cap (Authenticap).

Grommes Little Jewel 5 LJ5, Part I
Authenticap

My 6V6 Overview
Grommes LJ-6 Review (by Audiocraft 1958)

For details of my Systems, see sidebar to the right.

Grommes has always had a good reputation. Like some of its contemporaries, it offered kits as well as fully assembled products. It survives today as Grommes Precision, whose sloppy website has a History Page. There are also low res pics of pamphlets, which unfortunately cannot be downloaded. Most useful perhaps is the Past Product Guide. However, even there the info given are of dubious accuracy. The LJ2 and LJ5 are both "circa 1952", which cannot be.

One can see that, as in Bell products, by the time of LJ5 (likely 1956-7) the noval 12AX7 had replaced the octal 6SL7 used in its predecessor LJ2. There is more info on LJ5 (as well as LJ2 and LJ6) in radiomuseum. While there is little info on the net regarding the various models in the long running series, I did quite a bit of picture searching. Like Bell 2122, the LJ2 uses 6SC7 (just 1 though) and 6SL7. By the time of LJ3, these were already replaced by 2 x 12AX7, and this tube complement was maintained all the way to LJ6. There were minor cosmetic changes and I think the basic circuit likely changed little. I noticed two changes in the LJ6: the power transformer is mounted with the laminations horizontal rather than vertical (using some perspective scaling, I think it is smaller); and the rectifier changed to 6X5. Both of these I suspect are cost-cutting measures. By 1959, like Bell, Grommes amps had become slim-line as well.

Those interested should read the very detailed review of the similar LJ6 (link above).

My two units were bought separately a long time ago. If my memory serves me, it was not long after I acquired and enjoyed my Bell 2122's, and so wanted to further explore 6V6 amps. Their electrolytic capacitors needed replacement and recently after listening to the Bell 2122, Kevin replaced them for me, using German Authenticap. Initially I balked at the price of these cans, but after listening at my home recently, I am actually glad that these reputable caps were used, so good the result is.

The innards can look rather uneven, the more so as some of these were from kits built by amateurs. Parts quality were not bad, though the audiophile is likely to frown upon the ceramic caps even if they are known to be more reliable. My units are more or less stock and look like the pic from radiomuseum.

At first we listened to them briefly at Kevin's (here), where we found the sound to be softer than the Bell 2122, with less microdynamic nuance even if the smoothness was eminently suitable for classical replay. We surmised that the ceramic coupling capacitors were compromising the sound.

After I took them home, I hooked them up and was really surprised by how differently and brilliantly they performed in my setups. I swapped out the Grommes LJ5 for the Wavac MD-811 and was delighted by the results.

Used as Power Amps Either Line Inputs were used. The volume was turned all the way up. Treble and Bass controls were in their flat positions. With both my recently fired up System I (Manley 300B preamp) or System II (Shindo Monbrisson as preamp), the sound was just as good, if not better than before. Compared to the SET Wavac, the midrange is just as transparent and sweet, whereas the treble is a tad smoother and the bass a tad more fulsome and rolling. Curiously, in my system, there is none of the overly smooth and somewhat restrained manner experienced at Kevin's. I double-checked with my Mangar Test CD, and everything sounded just wonderful. I did not compare directly with the Bell 2122, but my memory tells me the Bell is likely to be a little airier and sharper, but the Grommes' richer palette is at least just as good - it is so good that I refuse to take them out!

Used as Integrated Amp For this, I recruited my System III, but  wired the Schiit Saga directly to the line input of the Grommes. I maxed out the volume of the Saga and hence it is a 1:1 buffer only. I controlled the volume using the Grommes. The sound is slightly less punchy than through my big preamps, but of sufficient dynamics to play big classical pieces. I am going through yet another Bruckner cycle on CD (Nezet-Sequin on Atma). So far I have played Symphony 2 and 3, and enjoyed the sound of both very much. Used as integrated, the sound of the woodwinds are even more mellifluous than through the big preamps (the Symphony 2 I had played also through the Shindo), and that is not a bad trade off for the small loss in dynamics. Phono Section I hooked up the Thorens TD-124/SME 3012/Denon DL-103 (System I) via the Bob's Devices SUT into the Magnetic Phono Input (RIAA used; there are two other settings - Flat and "Old LP"). Sound is surprisingly quiet and excellent, given there is only one tube at work (12AX7), fully commensurate with the sound of System III through the Schiit Saga. Giulini's Chicago Bruckner 9th (a two Christopher's recording) was exciting and dramatic, which can also be said of Charles Gerhardt/Wilkinson's Borodin Symphony No. 2 (RCA, National PO/Tjeknavorian). What was most impressive about the phono section was that the different hall sound of each recording is easily audible. Believe me, most systems do not make such a good distinction. And the gain is sufficient; in fact, phono sounds a little more dynamic than the line level inputs.

Bruckner 9th (Giulini/Chicago on Angel) playing.

When I get the chance, I shall take this to Andy's place and give it another sounding. Grommes, like Bell, in an old name that has a solid reputation. But I kinda suspect many other 6V6 amps (though not all, as some are pretty flimsy) will sound great too with horns.

B&W Matrix 801 Mk II, Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pro

The Big Fat Ladies, flanked by the Altec A7's. In the rear: on shelves, from left, VPI Prime, Lenco GL-75 and Thorens TD-125;  on top of rack, McIntosh MC-30's flanking Harmon Kardon Citation I and Chinese Preamp; on the shelves, my two McIntosh C-20's and Conrad-Johnson Premier 3 Preamps; in front, Conrad-Johnson MV75 amp flanked by Chinese Blue Velvet Preamp (with regulation diode tubes).

B&W Matrix 801 Mk II and Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pro
Making the Rounds, Again

This past Sunday the same old crowd gathered again, this time a full house. VAS Stephen's wife, and electronic wizard Paul put in rare appearances. First, We first visited R on Long Island. Then it was a rare Sunday for Kevin to be available, and we all went to his house in the late afternoon.

Click pics to enlarge. Top, a pair of Bell 2122's flanking the Marantz 8B; Right, half way through lunch.

Altec A5 + 6V6 amps
R's stuff has not changed much since my last report (here). This time James sourced a pair of Bell 2122 and restored them for him (using teflon caps), so this pair in the pic is now R's, not mine, which I took back last time (for more on the Bell 2122, read here). All remarked that this pair did not sound quite as open as my pair, though still very good. Such are the vagaries of vintage gear restoration, or perhaps the caps are not yet broken in.

I brought with me my long time reference loudspeaker cable for horns (and most others), the Belden 9497 (reported here). I am not surprised that it sounded substantially better than R's lamp cords (literally). They are not coming out of the system.

A few meters of cable did not even begin to repay R's excellent lunch of Roast Pork and Home-Made Sausages, garnished by a wonderfully citric Apple and Fennel Salad tossed with honeyed walnuts, all washed down with an excellent vintage Chilean Shiraz at its peak. Magnifico!

I sincerely thank R for having us to lunch twice in a month! We have to think of more toys to keep him going...

The Return of B&W Matrix 801 Mk II

Click pics to enlarge. Top, the Appetizers, mostly Cold Dishes; Clockwise from 3 O'Clock, Bamboo Shoots, Pig's Ear, Beef with Tripe, Sausages and Fish, surrounding a very nice Merlot; Below Right, Addition of the Lamb Soup, served with Noodles.

Serendipity! After talking with Andy and I, Kevin had pretty much decided he'd like a pair of B&W Matrix 801. Our great leader Andy then happened to spot a pair for sale, and Kevin drove two hours to pick them up.

This is a pair of Mk II's in mint condition, with original boxes, and obviously well taken care of. They were inherited, which the seller then used for a while before re-boxing them.

The B&W 801 Mk II is one of the best loudspeakers I have heard (my experience). I am really glad that this pair is now in the possession of Kevin, as I'll get to hear it.

These as yet do not have proper stands. Kevin had improvised a pair of stop-gap stands which I am sure he will replace with something more suitable in due course.

At first, the sound as not at all close to what I know they are capable of. Well, these were placed very close and not elevated enough. I urged Kevin to move them further in room (in front of the Altec's) and have they wider apart, but for the day we only managed to have them a little more forward than in the pic, and even those few inches, which made the baffles clear the Altec enclosures, improved the sound.

The Chinese Blue Velvet Preamp, which works well with the horns (including at my place), proved to be less ideal for the system, now using CJ MV-75 amp. Things coarsened considerably at higher volume. The replacement CJ Premier 3 Preamp could play much louder. We tried several loudspeaker cables but settled with a pair of Straight Wire. But the most astonishing change came with swapping out the DIY cable between the preamp and amp for the Gotham GAC-1 Ultra-Pro I brought with me.

WOW! Now we are talking! The images fleshed out and the soundstage increased substantially in both depth and width, but the most impressive was the sheer coherence and liveliness. Andy turned around and said to me: "...just a cable change?"

Bass Alignment Filter They even came with the optional Bass Alignment Filter (read the very interesting treatise here), which we did not use on the day. Apparently, Kevin had briefly tried them out, reporting the result of less mid-bass. In Stereophile's review of the Matrix 801 Mk II, the reviewer deemed the use of the filter essential, but the same reviewer did not think it should be used in the more upscale 800 model that followed (here). Unlike Kevin's, my pair did not come with the filter, but the sound is already superb and full range to me. Being a tube preamp user, I'd be most hesitant adding the filter between the preamp and amp, but I surely would like to hear the effect at Kevin's. More fun (and articles) to come!

Thoughts

• B&W Matrix 801 One of the greatest loudspeakers ever made, and for baby boomers many of their favorite recordings were likely mastered using these as monitors. It is very revealing, but at the same time highly musical and authoritative. Personally, I regard the Matrix series as superior to the Nautilus and Diamond series that followed.

• Belden 9497 You never go wrong with the 9497. While I have never heard it sound bad with any loudspeakers, with horns they are simply the best. Next time, I'd like to try a double run to bi-wire the B&W 801.

• Preamp Choice While the Chinese Blue Velvet Preamp (simple circuit with basic power supply and simple diode regulation) performs well with our horns, it did not do so well with the B&W 801. Instead the much better built and regulated CJ Premier 3 (not a personal favorite) performed much better. To me, this re-inforces my belief that simpler (including vintage) preamps are better for horns whereas harder to drive loudspeakers demand more modern (highly regulated) preamps (see my thoughts in my Citation I article).

• Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pro While I have never formally reported on this particular Gotham cable (previously mentioned here), I have used it a lot. To me, it is even cleaner and more detailed than the older GAC-2 and 4, not to mention the supremely musical DGS-1. The air and soundstage are tremendous. With the B&W 801 it sounds just perfect, but with horns it can sometimes be just a little too revealing. I have not tried the other more expensive Ultra Pro's, but I know some people in HK swear by them. Definitely worth a try.

What a wonderful day. Many thanks to R and Kevin!

More Pics

Thorens TD-125 with Rabco Tonearm and Pickering 380 Cartridge

Lenco GL-75 with Decca Tonearm and Shure M44-7

Tea and Fruits after the Royal Meal

Princess on Her Chair

Intrepid

More about the pic.

The Intrepid Audiophile

I love Museums, but mostly those housing Art. For non-art museums, I have to say the Intrepid Museum in NYC must be my favorite (browse the USS Intrepid's history, fascinating). And it took me only 36 years to visit it (it opened in 1982)! Never too late!

I took an intense interest in the equipment. As a tube aficionado, I am mindful of the fact that most, if not all, electronic equipment from WW II to the Vietnam War (at least) were tube equipment. And so, on the Intrepid, I scrutinized every meter, every box. For pics below, click to enlarge.

Tube collectors will recognize Westinghouse.

The Telephone is made by Stromberg Carlson, an illustrious name.

This is new to me. I know Western Electric, of course, and also Northern Electric (Canadian), but not Northwestern Electric!

Bruno Walter Mahler

Bruno Walter: Mahler
CD and LP Recommendation - Classical


Today I was surprised by the web edition of Stereophile, which published a 1963 article by J Gordon Holt, highly praising Bruno Walter's Stereo Mahler 1st (Columbia Symphony).

Personally I feel Walter's recordings of some of the Mahler Symphonies have never been surpassed, only sometimes equalled. They are essentials in the Mahler cannon.

The 1st is a record I have cherished ever since my first foray into classical's. Mine was an Odyssey reissue. I have always regarded it as one of the very best. My other favorite is the cataclysmic Kletzki/VPO recording, perhaps followed by Horenstein/LSO.

Walter's Mahler Stereo 2nd (NYPO) was my first version, and it has remained my preferred version. The all-important opening imho has never been better served, so atmospheric it is. Mine was also the Odyssey reissue, and I still love that cover!

Walter's Mahler 4th and 5th are in good sounding mono, and very good, but perhaps not as outstanding as the 1st or 2nd.

When it comes to the 9th, Walter (Columbia Symphony) again is supreme. Mine is the Odyssey re-issue, and again I love the artwork! But what is even more unforgettable is the ancient/mono VPO version, sonic limitations notwithstanding.

And then there is Das Lied von der Erde, and I love both his versions for Decca (mono; VPO/Ferrier/Patzak) and the under-rated Columbia (stereo; NYPO/Miller/Hafliger).

There is a great survey on Musicweb-International of Mahler by Tony Duggan, a reliable guide:

Mahler 1st
Mahler 2nd
Mahler 4th
Mahler 5th
Mahler 9th

You can see Walter is always there.